Well Wisconsin Radio

Host: The information in this podcast does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. It should not be used as a substitute for healthcare from a licensed healthcare professional. Consult with your healthcare provider for individualized treatment or before beginning any new program. Hello and welcome to Well Wisconsin Radio, a podcast discussing health and wellbeing topics with experts from all around the state of Wisconsin.

I’m your host, Renee Fox, and today my guest is Randy Barker. Randy is a licensed professional counselor and is the founding director of the Pruitt Center for Mindfulness and Wellbeing at the University of Wisconsin Superior. In addition to counseling and coaching, Randy is a sought-after speaker and trainer on topics including mental health, performance, mindset, and wellbeing in the workplace and education.

He created the Permanent Model of wellbeing, which is a science-backed framework, encompassing nine core domains that support the mind, body, and spirit. This model reinforces the idea that wellbeing is not only measurable, but also teachable. Randy, it is wonderful having you as a guest on our podcast today.

Guest: Well, thank you. I’m honored to be here and very excited about our conversation.

Host: Wonderful. Let’s get started. I wonder if you can help start our conversation off today by telling us a little bit more about the Pruitt Center for mindfulness and wellbeing and the work that you do to support students, faculty, staff, and also community members.

Guest: Oh, I, I love talking about the Pruitt Center, so Absolutely. Yeah. The, the Pruitt Center was established August 27th, 2018, with the mission to promote and enhance the science and practice of mindfulness and wellbeing. And there’s two real key words within that mission statement that we were very intentional about.

First is science. Everything that comes out of the center, we, we felt it was vital and important that it’s based on science. Um, I love self-help. I read a lot of self-help, but part of self-help is it isn’t based on science, which can cause frustration. So, science is very important for us. So, we do a lot of work making sure that we’re reading, keeping up to date on things.

The other key word is practice. Um, mindful, you know, wellbeing is, is a learnable skill, but with any other skill it requires practice. And um, I think the more that we do it, the better we become. And what, what the practice component is, is really based on the term neuroplasticity, which is based out of neuroscience.

Meaning that what fires, wires, and, uh, we’re always looking for ways of making sure that we’re firing wire wiring, the right circuits in the right habits. Then at the Pruitt Center, we also serve three different populations, which is kind of unique. Um, and, and at times a, a big ask because there are three different populations that have three different needs.

But first and foremost are our students. Um, you know, we’re in higher ed. They’re our number one priority, so always making sure that we’re trying to find ways to improve their mental health and wellbeing. Um, we also serve our faculty and staff, and really the reasoning behind that is when we dug into the research, we found that obvious, you know, the faculty and staff’s mental health and wellbeing have a direct correlation on students’ mental health and wellbeing. So, we knew that it was also important that we, we serve them. And then thirdly, we, we wanted to serve our greater community. We felt that the information that we were, you know researching and, and teaching was too important not to share with as many people as possible.

Host: I love that you’re reaching three different audiences as you talked about, um, such a big reach and impact that you all are having. Can you tell us more about, you know, some of the early days when you were working towards founding this center and, and the vision and how that came about?

Guest: Yeah, like I mentioned, we opened in 2018, but really things started in 2015. There was, there was a lot of different things that took place, and it really started, um, with the university identifying some champions on campus that were kind of already doing a bit of this work. At that time, I was teaching a positive psychology class.

There were a few other people that were kind of dabbling in this area and we were brought in and, um, there was, uh, an alumnus that had a connection with the Greater Good Science Center and they graciously offered to, to support four of us here on our campus to go to the greater good and, and for a week to learn with the leading researchers at that time in the world on wellbeing. And it was at that time when we were there and we were learning that we started to talk about, well, what, what would this look like at the University of Wisconsin Superior? What, what if we were to, at some point in time, open a center that would really be based on, you know, being proactive and preventative when it comes to mental health.

And, um, so when we came back from that training, we, we started to apply it in the work that we did, but we also had, um, one or two open sessions. We put it out to the campus community not really knowing the type of response we would get, and to our surprise, um, you know, the first one we held it was, it was packed.

You know, people were hungry to learn about this area. They were, you know, they wanted more. So, we, we knew we were onto something and. We started to form just a small working group and really started grassroots efforts of just really starting to do, you know, a few different events a year to where again, we, we really started to gain momentum.

Um, from there, um, I was very fortunate to have some release time. As my role as a counselor 50% of my role was to really start to research what a wellbeing center would look like on a college campus. Um, and again, there was a lot of other work that was taking place from people on campus.

And, and from there we, we presented to our, our chancellor’s, uh, cabinet and, and our upper administration about that. And they felt that it was at a place where they could kind of go out and ask, uh, you know, an individual and a couple that were very interested in our work, and they become our benefactors—Becky and Doug Pruitt.

So, their generosity and, and their support of our vision has really allowed us to get to a point to now where we’re sitting here seven years later you know, with the Pruitt Center for Mindfulness and Wellbeing.

Host: Incredible to see like how that vision has come to life. And can you tell us more about, you know, what that looks like in terms of what you’re offering through the Pruitt Center with classes and workshops and events and a little bit more about that area.

Guest: Yeah, again, I’ll, I’ll kind of just touch upon like, when, when we talk about students, one of our goals right away was to look at, you know, embedding mindfulness and wellbeing into the curriculum. Uh, we felt that that was really important is to really be looking education not only about enhancing intellectual skills and abilities, but wellbeing skills and abilities. And we’ve done a few different projects in regard to that, that I think really highlight that. Um, myself and, and my colleague, we have created a three-credit intro to mindfulness course, which has been, I think, very impactful.

Um, you know, it started off where we had, you know, five or six students to now where we have 20 students, which we actually max out at, where there’s a waiting list of individuals that are wanting to get into the class. And one of the things that we always tend to see is that students are coming up to us and saying, why is this the first time I’m hearing about these areas? Why is it the first time that I’m learning about these vital, important skills of, of mindfulness and wellbeing? And so that’s one of the things that we’ve implemented and feel very proud of. We’ve also implemented, uh, we’ve partnered with HMI, which is based out of Madison, Wisconsin Healthy Minds.

They have this wonderful app. They have customized it for higher education and we’ve, uh, integrated into our HHP 102, which is the class that has the largest attendance. So, I think we have about 500 students a year that take that course. And within that course, it’s integrated that students will go through 15 weeks of learning and experiencing through this incredible app from Healthy Minds. So, we’ve been doing that over several, several years now. And again, we measure and we’re seeing that it’s moving the needle in these vital and important areas of, you know, insight, connection, awareness, meaning, and purpose.

These are all things that are really important, I think more than ever. And, you know, we’re implementing that in there. We also do a lot of work with athletics. I think the biggest population that utilizes the student population that utilizes the Pruitt Center is athletics. We tend to work with just about every sports team on our campus.

They’re very interested in learning about these skills, knowing that it’s not only going to improve their positive mental health, but it’s going to improve their performance. And, uh, athletes are very interested in that. Um, and then I’ll just end with one other one that we’re very excited about and it’s actually taking place this week is, is over the last few years we’ve hosted an Unplugged to Reconnect retreat for students.

And that’s exactly what the title says it all, is that we’re unplugging from our electronics and we’re going out into nature to reconnect with ourselves and one another. So, we stay at a lodge, we stay over, we do some hiking, we do some mindfulness exercises, and we just get back to basics of getting to know one another and connect.

Host: That’s great. That’s fantastic just to see there’s such strong interest in wanting to learn and grow in this area, um, with students across campus. Can you tell us more about the impact that you’ve seen after people have participated and really been involved and what that looks like both on campus and in your community?

Yeah, I mean, I think when we look at the impact that we’ve had on campus, I think one of the things is stigma reduction. When we hear the term mental health, we tend to, the default is always to go straight to mental disorder. And one of the things that we really promote is, number one, we all have mental health. Every single one of us.

And mental health is more than the absence of disorder. And so, I think part of it is, people are starting to see that, to realize that, to communicate that. I’m, I’m very proud of that and I think that’s had a significant impact on our campus. I also think it’s been really part of our DNA here and, and our culture, um, using the language and really supporting the initiatives throughout campus, not only for our students, but our faculty and staff and our community.

And I think the other thing that is tough to measure, and this is a hypothesis, you know, it’s really tough to measure, but I also oversee our student health and counseling services here, and we’re one of the only counseling centers that doesn’t have a wait list. And I think one of things that we feel is due to the upstream work that we’ve really done surrounding mindfulness and wellbeing.

Host: Such an incredible impact. I appreciate you sharing the stories. Exciting to hear that. How does it feel as you reflect on the work that has been done at the Pruitt Center over the last six years?

Guest: Wow. Yeah. Very proud of the work, and I think one of the reasons why I’m very proud of the work is that, you know, we have a small team. You know, first it started with myself and then I was very fortunate to hire an incredible colleague, Laurie Tolman and who’s our program manager. And she, she just brings so many skills and expertise and really allowed us to get to that next level of the work that we do. And I think one of the things is that we do our annual report at the end of the year of kind of capturing all the work that we’ve done and we kind of sit back and go, wow, that’s a lot.

And, and I think, you know, the other thing that we look at is, is just kind of the work within the community. Um, you know, one of the, the impacts are that I think the community continues to reach out to us, using us as a resource. The demand of our service within the community continues to rise. And you know, that says a lot to us.

And you know, we’ve, we’ve gained some incredible partnerships with the local schools. Um, you know, the hospitals, first responders, fire departments, human services. So, when I really look at it, I really see the growth that has taken place over the last, you know, seven years. I think it’s seven years for us. And yet we also feel we just have touched the tip of the iceberg and we’re very excited about what’s to come for the Pruitt Center.

Host: Yeah, I look forward to hearing more. Would be great to have you back as a guest later on and continue to update us for sure. And now we’ll just take a quick break to hear about some of Well Wisconsin’s program offerings.

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Host: So, I know when I introduced you, I talked a little bit about, um, the permanent model and your work in that space. Can you tell us more about that and your work as the creator of this framework?

Guest: Yeah. Well, this was something when we opened up the center that we felt we needed to look at, at creating a framework to really provide us with a language to talk about this and, I spent hours and hours and obsessively looking at wellbeing models that were already created. And, um, there were many that I liked, but there were, you know, I felt that they were incomplete.

They didn’t really consist of mind, body, and spirit, and that’s really what, you know, I thought was important is looking at the whole person. So really took it upon myself to kind of dig into the research, into the science and, and to really look at what I feel, and again, this is from my perspective, nine areas that, number one, are based on science, nine areas that, you know, uh, there’s interventions that you can learn that will have an impact on, on your wellbeing.

And I kind of put them together and I was able to find an acronym and, many people were like, oh Randy, not another acronym. But I do like this acronym in the sense of the term permanent, permanent means long lasting. And I think that’s really the goal is to make sure that we’re striving towards long lasting wellbeing.

So, yeah that’s about the permanent model. We use it as our framework. We use it for any types of trainings and workshops that we provide it and really making sure that’s getting out there. And I think many people are starting to, to pick up on it, use it. I mean, everything that we create, we want as many people as possible to use it in any way that that fits their needs.

Host: Excellent. I love it. And just, you know, a great acronym that you were able to create there as well. Can you tell us about those nine different domains that you mentioned?

Guest: I’m going to do my very best to summarize this, and I just want to add a disclaimer here is that I’m going to touch the tip of the iceberg when it comes to these nine different domains.

We do full day workshops on these, you know, we could break each one down and go through them, but you know, I’ll just kind of give an overview of each. I mean, the first is present moment awareness. I think this really distinguishes us from other wellbeing models in the sense that we feel that present moment awareness is the foundation to wellbeing and present moment awareness is really about being mindful, being present, and if we’re not present, right there, there is no chance for change. And mindfulness is kind of the definition that I like to use is mindfulness about present moment awareness of what’s happening in our mind and our body in the world around us in this moment with, with that attitude of acceptance and non-judgmental kindness.

Now that’s really hard to do in today’s world. Um, the ability to sustain our focus and attention on the task at hand is decreasing. And, and so I think that this is an important skill that can be learned, that is really foundational in the sense of gaining that self-awareness to then make change.

And if we’re not self-aware, what happens is we fall into the default mode of doing what we’ve always done. And, uh, you know, or mindlessness. So, I think what we really feel is practicing learning. The more time that we’re able to spend in the present moment, kind of everything flows from there.

Now there’s many benefits to when we talk about mindfulness that I think is really important when it comes to wellbeing is, and kind of look at using, you know, kind of the five or six Cs. One is calmness. We know that mindfulness at times can calm us, and we’re experiencing a lot of stress in today’s world more than ever, and stress is not a bad thing yet.

If it’s prolonged, we know, and the evidence shows that it is problematic and mindfulness can access that calming effect, the relaxation response. Mindfulness also allows us choice. And I love the Viktor Frankl quote of, between the stimulus and response lies, our freedom allows, allows our freedom to choose.

So, mindfulness is the pause, it’s the space. It allows us to respond versus react or choose like is what I’m thinking, you know, helping me or hurting me or what I’m feeling, helping me or hurting me. So, I think choice is really important and mindfulness allows that. I think it also allows us to connect, allows us to connect to ourselves being fully present and allows us to connect to others, which I’ll get into more later on in another domain.

I also think it allows us clarity in the sense of; at times our minds are full racing and there’s so much noise that just standing still for a moment or two. It really allows things to kind of just settle and we start to see things that are right there in front of us with clarity. Then the last is compassion.

What I mean by compassion is, is that compassion is seeing suffering and then alleviating suffering. But if we’re not present, we don’t even see the suffering in front of us. So, mindfulness allows us to then see that, to then take the steps to alleviate it. So, I really think that mindfulness is such an important skill. Um, for so many different areas in our lives, not only personally but professionally.

The next is emotional intelligence. And emotional intelligence is exactly that. Being intelligent about our emotions, about our emotions ourselves and, and the emotions of others. And I think the biggest takeaways of emotional intelligence when it comes to skill development is emotional regulation.

The ability to regulate our emotions. And many times, you know that’s very difficult. And, um, a lot of times, especially when they’re difficult emotions we want to avoid and suppress. And emotional intelligence is, no, I recognize what I’m feeling and I’m going to take the skill to regulate it.

I think emotional intelligence is also being able to recognize positive emotions and also being able to, to recognize those, savor those and benefit from those. I think that’s a real important skill in today’s world, that we need to be, you know, working on. And the thing about emotional intelligence, which we do know, and research continues to show it’s learnable. So no matter where we are, we can increase it.

The next domain is relationships. And, you know, there’s a lot of good research recently on relationships. You know, research shows that we’re the loneliest we’ve ever been in today’s world. Um, even though at times we feel we’re connected, we’re not connected human to human.

And that’s, I think that’s one of the things that we’re seeing less of. Um, what research shows is we’re wired to connect human to human. It’s one of our, you know, how we’re wired is to be in community. And we’re doing less of that. And there’s lots of good research. The number one thing that improves wellbeing more than anything is relationships.

It’s not about the quantity; it’s about the quality of relationships. So just one of the skills that I think is so important when it comes to relationship, which we work a lot with people, is listening. The ability to listen to someone fully. Um, it’s the most healing thing that we can do for another human is to really be there and to be present and to listen.

And then the next domain is meaning. And meaning is really again, you know, really finding your why or wanting to be a part of something bigger than yourself. And kind of at times what I talk about is, you know, it’s finding your calling. What is it that you’ve been put on this earth to do?

I think that’s really important with college students is to really talk about what that is, what excites them. I think with meaning and purpose too, we talk about the importance of strengths, us utilizing our strengths. We know that when we use our strengths, that increases our meaning and purpose. So, I think those are things that again, we need to continue to be looking at in today’s world. What provides us meaning and purpose, and how do we do more of that?

And then the next domain is achievement. And achievement is, you know, I think research continues to show is that we as humans are striving humans, right? We want to be moving towards something. We want to be working towards something.

We want to have goals and that’s really important. We’re, I think we also spend a little bit of time when it comes to achievement is the term growth mindset of making sure that we have that growth mindset, that with effort, change can happen, or a term that we like to use is, yeah, I’m not there yet.

So that yet is really important. And another term that we tend to spend a lot of time and focus on in research, we show this is failure. Like failure is part of achievement. It’s really learn to failure or fail to learn. There is no other way. So really looking at failure as part of achievement and moving us forward.

Then we have needed sleep. And sleep is an area that I’ve spent over these last few years, a lot of time, and I’ve really, you know, referenced Matthew Walker’s work on sleep. I feel like he’s the leading researcher when it comes to sleep, and I think first and foremost we have a sleep image problem in the sense that.

At times, you know, you’ll hear things, well, I’ll sleep when I’m dead. Or, you know, the pride of the all-nighter. And, and you know, what we know is that sleep is such an important, vital component of our wellbeing. It’s actually the time that our brain really does the cleaning and the consolidation of learning.

Um, what we also know in research has shown is that, you know, sleep at times if we’re not getting proper, is the precursor to mental disorders. It used to be always talked about as a symptom, but now they’re showing that it’s a precursor. So, I always say is that if you want, you know, one thing that to improve your wellbeing is to get more sleep.

That seven to nine hour is what research shows, and we spend a lot of time talking about sleep hygiene and there’s some very good research on certain things that we can do, simple little things on a daily basis that can help sleep.

The next is exercise, and I use the term exercise in the domain. I don’t like the term exercise. I prefer the, the term movement. And we sit way too much. We’re moving less than ever. Um, so part of it is, I always tell people, is that it is the best anti-anxiety, anti-depressant, anti-stress on the market research proven. There’s no disputing it. Actually, at times I wish they had stopped researching it because there’s so much evidence that shows that it’s so beneficial.

And the other thing is that you know, when we move, there is no dose to too small, right? Any movement has been shown to make a real difference. Two other things that I want to highlight when we talk about movement is moving with other people. So, you get that social connection and also out in nature right there. There’s a lot of benefit to that.

Then I’ll get into nutrition. And I think nutrition is probably the most controversial topic when it comes to this model. Um, I read a lot on nutrition and part, the more I read, the more I get confused on it. So, I always tell people is you have to find what works best for you, talk to your medical provider.

But I think there are a few things when it comes to nutrition that aren’t very controversial. Drinking more water, drinking more, you know, eating more whole foods, unprocessed your diet, decreasing sugar intake. Um, you know, I think gut biome, there’s enough evidence to show that those things do make a significant difference when it comes to your wellbeing.

And then lastly, thinking and thinking is really based on cognitive behavioral skills. Uh, we know that our thinking has a significant impact on the way that we feel and the way that we behave. And skills that we really look at, there are just self-talk, right? The things that we say to ourselves have a significant impact on our wellbeing, and then having the ability to reframe our thinking and at times even checking in for evidence to see, is what I’m thinking very accurate? Is it helping me or hurting me?

So, I know I ran through those quite quickly. A lot of information to digest, but that kind of gives you a broad overview of the model.

Host: Yeah. Thank you for walking us through that. Really, really helpful. Um, and I’m curious now to see, like, say if someone is wanting to identify, you know, areas of their life that they might need to pay more attention to, using the framework and the examples that you shared, how would you recommend someone work on improving their mindfulness and wellbeing with applying that framework?

Guest: Well, I think the first is, it always comes back to self-awareness, right? So being aware of, of kind of where you’re at, what you’re experiencing. I think, this is the other thing, everyone always asks me, well, what’s the most important wellbeing skill that I should start with?

And I always say, that is the one that you’ll start with, the one that you’ll do. I think that’s always what I say is when I talk about this, you know, and I go through this framework with people, I always say is, which one resonates most with you? Which one at this moment in time resonates most with you?

And it’s not about trying all of them at once. It’s really starting with one, working on that, gaining some success in it. And then I’m a true believer in the ripple effect. Is that when we make one positive change in one of these areas, it positively impacts the other domains, and then we’re more likely to keep that going.

Host: Hmm. Yeah, I love that. And very achievable when you’re focusing on one area at a time too. So really love your recommendation there. What advice do you have for our listeners who are just working to achieve lifelong mindfulness and wellbeing?

Guest: Well, yeah, I mean, I think one of the things I, I want to just kind of put out there is there is no finish line when it comes to this work. This requires constant attention, constant work. So, I think there is no finish line. Second of all is wellbeing is hard work. There is, you know, there’s no getting around that. It, it does require you to put in the work on a consistent basis to get the results that you’re looking for.

And I think the other thing too that when we talk about wellbeing is it’s not about all or nothing. It really, there’s two mantras that I always use with people is little by little, little becomes a lot. So just looking for those little micro changes and or any difference can make a big difference. So I really look at there is no end. It, it does require work and little change adds up.

Host: Yeah. Great advice. Um, so for our wrap up question here, just curious about what is on the horizon for the work and the research that you’re doing to support mindfulness and wellbeing.

Guest: Yeah, we’re very excited. We have got two new initiatives that we’re very excited about. We just hired another full-time staff member within the Pruitt Center, Dr. Lynn Gert, who we’re very excited to add, and two areas that she’s going to be overseeing. One is an initiative called Live Well. And Live Well has been taking place for the last few years. There’s a group of individuals on our campus that really took the lead in that and created that. And LiveWell is an initiative to really help people connect. Within the community on campus, and it’s about offering free activities on a monthly basis.

So, several activities a month where people can engage in, where they’re going to connect with one another and have fun. Again, we, we know we’re not doing enough of that. And over this last year, we have gained significant momentum with that, and we have recently put that within the Pruitt Center as an initiative and we’re really trying to grow that.

I was looking at some numbers this morning, and I think since, you know, in 2025, we’ve hosted 89 events with over 1,200 people participating in it. So, some of those events are pickleball. You know, we did a 5K, we do sauna cold plunges, crafting, cooking, hiking and campfires. So. A variety of different activities to just bring people together and I think it’s continued to increase.

And the last thing is that we are, uh, this is our first year is we’re starting a wellbeing innovation lab, where we’re going to be looking at different wellbeing needs within the community and really trying to be innovative in what we’re looking at and doing some research, looking from start to finish.

And, and you know, I think that’s really important in the field this year, we’ve identified an area that we’re going to be researching, which is social prescribing. Social in nature prescribing. So, uh, we have some students that will be working with Dr. Lynn Gert through that process, and we’re excited to see the research that comes from that.

And we’re hoping that we see some positive impacts. If so, we want to share that as much as possible. And if there isn’t, I think that’s also important to share. So those are two big initiatives from the Pruitt Center that we’re very excited about.

Host: Oh, wonderful. I’m excited to hear more and see the research that comes from that as well. Thank you so much for sharing and for being a guest on our podcast today.

Guest: Oh, it’s been a pleasure.

Host: Thanks for listening to Well Wisconsin Radio. I hope you’ve enjoyed this show. You can find our survey in the Well Wisconsin portal and our transcripts and previous episodes, all at www.webmdhealthservices.com/WellWisconsinRadio. If you’re listening to this podcast on your platform of choice, be sure to subscribe so you can never miss an episode.

The information in this podcast does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. It should not be used as a substitute for healthcare from a licensed healthcare professional. Consult with your healthcare provider for individualized treatment or before beginning any new program. Hello and welcome to Well Wisconsin Radio, a podcast discussing health and wellbeing topics with experts from all around the state of Wisconsin.

Pruitt Center for Mindfulness and Well-being